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Deletion Sorting
Project

This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Pakistan. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.

Adding a new AfD discussion
Adding an AfD to this page does not add it to the main page at WP:AFD. Similarly, removing an AfD from this page does not remove it from the main page at WP:AFD. If you want to nominate an article for deletion, go through the process on that page before adding it to this page. To add a discussion to this page, follow these steps:
  1. Edit this page and add {{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/PageName}} to the top of the list. Replace "PageName" with the relevant article name, i.e. the one on the existing AFD discussion. Also, indicate the title of the article in the edit summary as it is particularly helpful to add a link to the article in the edit summary. When you save the page, the discussion will automatically appear.
  2. You should also tag the AfD by adding {{subst:delsort|Pakistan|~~~~}} to it, which will inform editors that it has been listed here. You may place this tag above or below the nomination statement or at the end of the discussion thread.
There are a few scripts and tools that can make this easier.
Removing a closed AfD discussion
Closed AfD discussions are automatically removed by a bot.
Other types of discussions
You can also add and remove other discussions (prod, CfD, TfD etc.) related to Pakistan. For the other XfD's, the process is the same as AfD (except {{Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/PageName}} is used for MFD and {{transclude xfd}} for the rest). For PRODs, adding a link with {{prodded}} will suffice.
Further information
For further information see Wikipedia's deletion policy and WP:AfD for general information about Articles for Deletion, including a list of article deletions sorted by day of nomination.

This list is also part of the larger list of deletion debates related to Asia.

Archived discussions (starting from September 2007) may be found at:
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Pakistan

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Mehran Spice and Food Industries

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Mehran Spice and Food Industries (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:NCORP - lacks non-routine in-depth coverage. This article is a "staff report" but is very promotional in nature - I don't think it is an example of independent substantial coverage per WP:CORPDEPTH. Gheus (talk) 11:19, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dr. Ziauddin Hospitals

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Dr. Ziauddin Hospitals (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:NCORP - in my before I found articles like this which is clearly marked as "PR" or this which is marked as "press release". This hospital chain is a for-profit business so it has to receive non-routine direct and in-depth coverage per WP:CORPTRIV. The corruption scandal is already on Asim Hussain's article, so I'm okay with a redirect to Asim Hussain or the parent organization, Ziauddin University. Gheus (talk) 10:45, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Chughtai Lab

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Chughtai Lab (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:NCORP - collaborations, partnerships coverage is not useful per WP:CORPTRIV. Gheus (talk) 10:38, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

St. Vincent's Home for the Aged

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AfDs for this article:
St. Vincent's Home for the Aged (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails NORG. The article contains WP:OR and appears promotional. — Saqib (talk I contribs) 04:43, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sada-e-Umeed

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AfDs for this article:
Sada-e-Umeed (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Faila NORG. The article contains WP:OR and appears promotional. This was an AfD'd in 2020 that closed as non-consensus. The only vote to keep the article had a counterargument that wasn't addressed. — Saqib (talk I contribs) 04:48, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hassan & Roshaan

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Hassan & Roshaan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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It was created by a newbie WikiProCreate (talk · contribs) and seemed PROMO, even though it had inline references. I draftified it so it could go through the AFC process, but the creator reverted the draftification. So, I have no choice but to nominate it for deletion. The page relies on GENREL sources and those from WP:NEWSORGINDIA and it clearly fails both GNG and WP:BAND. I also suspect it might be UPE! — Saqib (talk I contribs) 12:44, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Hassan & Roshaan are popular locally. Notability does not mean that a subject is covered globally. Local notability and noteworthiness are important. Additionally, their tracks and the band itself got nominated and was awarded by Lux Style Awards which is one of Pakistan's most prominent awards in the entertainment industry, this agrees with WP:GNG.. The subjects have been covered by Dawn News, Fuschia Magazine, and even on BBC's Asian network. If the grounds are that it the draft was moved to main-space, it was done after more references were added and part of content was altered based on the reviewer's feedback. The note mentioned moving the draft back to article space once it has been improved and it was done after changes were made. This band lies in the same category as other Pakistani singers/bands such as Young Stunners, Shamoon Ismail, Abdul Hannan. But only their track was included in an international franchise, Ms. Marvel (miniseries). Of course, changes can be made to improve it, but deleting it on unproven claims or UPE is unfair. There are more than 20 references added with in-line citations--and they are not syndicated coverage.
WikiProCreate (talk) 13:07, 17 September 2024 (UTC) — Note to closing admin: WikiProCreate (talk • contribs) is the creator of the page that is the subject of this AfD. [reply]
WikiProCreate, I've this simple question. On what criteria do you think it passes NBAND? — Saqib (talk I contribs) 13:23, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  1. Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent of the musician or ensemble itself.
  2. Has performed music for a work of media that is notable, such as a theme for a network television show, performance in a television show or notable film, inclusion on a notable compilation album. (But if this is the only claim, it is probably more appropriate to have a mention in the main article and redirect to that article. Read the policy and notability guideline on subjects notable only for one event, for further clarifications). (Ms. Marvel (mini-series and their song became an OST for a TV serial at ARY Digital)
  3. Won Lux Style Awards
WikiProCreate (talk) 13:33, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
1. But I don't see it that way. Most of the sources are either unreliable or fall under NEWSORGINDIA. There is some coverage, but it is too promotional to be considered sufficient for GNG.
2. Please provide evidence to support your second point
3. I also don’t see evidence that they won Lux Style Awards; they were only nominated. Even if they had won, it wouldn’t be sufficient, as it is not considered a major music award according to NBAND.. — Saqib (talk I contribs) 20:55, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Abdul Hannan (singer)

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AfDs for this article:
Abdul Hannan (singer) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This appears to be a WP:UPE. I draftified it last week, but the same editor re-created it at Draft:Abdul Hannan (Pakistani singer) which I also draftified and despite my request for them to submit draft for review. New users should ideally follow the WP:AFC procedure if they believe the BLP meets WP:N, but this wasn't done.

The draft has now been reverted to the main namespace. After reviewing this BLP, I don't think it meets the criteria for either WP:NSINGER or GNG. The creator of the BLP is actively participating in AFD discussions, even though they are relatively new to WP which suggests they are WP:BE. And I wouldn't be surprised if some IPs vote to keep this BLP in an effort to influence the outcome.

Additionally, the creator of this BLP brought their own creation to AFD to ensure it was rescued through the AfD process and the BLP remains - a practice commonly used by UPEs and socks. Also, Alon9393 , the creator had previously been warned by Davey2010 not to canvass editors in AFDs, but it appears Alon9393 have no intention of stopping. — Saqib (talk I contribs) 19:08, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ijaz Hussain Batalve

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Ijaz Hussain Batalve (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Article is not fit for main article space - too many problems with language, grammar, style, etc., but Draft:Ijaz Hussain Batalve already exists. BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 12:29, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

article is good enough and unique...grammar or language may be corrected...Article should be retained. Mottoo99 (talk) 16:25, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So fix the grammar and language first, in the draft article, then move it to mainspace? BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 12:35, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Bastun, as you said, a draft exist for this, so why not put in a history merger template before an AFD? Even if it goes through not, at least give it a try! Intrisit (talk) 16:06, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

On which version? One contains at least one copyright violation (now removed)? Simpler to just have the draft to work on, then have that go through AFC? BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 12:35, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Abdul Samad Dawood

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AfDs for this article:
Abdul Samad Dawood (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Little has changed in his fortunes since the last AFD eight months ago. He's still a successful and civic-minded businessman from a prominent Pakistani business family, and has worked at a high level for some notable companies. But on Wikipedia, notability is not inherited. I couldn't find SIGCOV of him in English or Urdu, just passing mentions in articles about the companies and organisations he's worked for, nothing to bring it up to the standard of WP:BIO or WP:GNG. Wikishovel (talk) 17:16, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: If only he had appeared in a few dramas, even in tiny roles, his BLP might have been easily saved from deletion under WP:NACTOR! But it’s ironic that someone so important in Pakistan's business community doesn’t have enough coverage that meets GNG. Anyway, I’ll hold off on voting for now. PS. No offense to the nominator Wikishovel, who also has legitimate reasons for taking it to AFD. — Saqib (talk I contribs) 17:37, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: Still not a slam dunk; outside of the Engro connection, there are no RS that discuss him and we only have source 13 that is helpful. Rest are yellow per Source Highlighter, so of moderate reliability. I still don't see/find much else we can use. Oaktree b (talk) 22:37, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Keep: The article follows the guidelines of WP:GNG and WP:SIGCOV as it demonstrates significant coverage in both Pakistani and international media, meeting WP:RS. As per WP:BASIC, “People are presumed notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple published[4] secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other,[5] and independent of the subject.[6]” Please feel free to check the sources, they meet all the mentioned criteria. Crosji (talk) 07:11, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Reuters is RS.--Ameen Akbar (talk) 14:03, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Reuters reference is indeed a reliable source, but that article is a summarised interview, and interviews are WP:Primary sources. Wikishovel (talk) 07:10, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla Ohhhhhh, no! 19:44, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Redirect to Dawood Hercules Corporation because he's prominent businessman serving on the board of various companies under Dawood Hercules Corporation. — Saqib (talk I contribs) 14:41, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep The references for this article are strong, even for a stub. The subject is a notable businessman in Pakistan with occasional public appearances. His notability is supported by coverage from reputable national newspapers and some international outlets. The first deletion discussion, with only one vote for deletion, appeared premature. Hence the new article has been improved with additional sources. While contributions are welcome, the arguments for deletion are not in line with policy. -Crosji (talk) 06:48, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strikethrough of second !vote: in an WP:AFD discussion, we get to post our recommendation just once. You're welcome to comment as much as you like. Wikishovel (talk) 07:03, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: While there may not be extensive media coverage, the subject is undoubtedly an influential figure in Pakistan’s business community, as highlighted by Saqib and others above. The significance is evident through the inclusion in government advisory groups and recognized contributions. The cited sources, including interviews with reputable, independent global media, further reinforce the prominence. Instead of debating the subject’s notability, efforts would be better spent refining and improving the article.
202.141.250.250 (talk) 10:56, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strikethrough of second !vote: in an WP:AFD discussion, we get to post our recommendation just once. You're welcome to comment as much as you like. Wikishovel (talk) 11:08, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

information Note: Closing admin should disregard some IP votes, as it appears that canvassing may be influencing the outcome. --— Saqib (talk I contribs) 16:13, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting as I still don't see a consensus (even after disregarding second "votes" that were cast). A source review could be helpful as well as arguments based in policy. Opinions, both pro and con, based on who he is related to, are not useful to an AFD discussion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 22:33, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Dawood Hercules Corporation. I was in the process of closing as such, but as we edit conflicted will just leave this as a !vote. He does not merit a standalone, but the target makes sense. Protect if needed against disruptive recreation. Star Mississippi 22:35, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment here's a source assessment, as suggested by Liz above in the relisting comment:
Source assessment table: prepared by User:Wikishovel
Source Independent? Reliable? Significant coverage? Count source toward GNG?
Karachi School of Business & Leadership, "Mr. Abdul Samad Dawood"[2] No Yes No profile page from a university of which he's on the board of governors ✘ No
Engro Corporation "Engro Corporation 1H 2021 Results" [3] No Yes No A press release by his employer announcing compamy results, mentions him briefly in one paragraph ✘ No
The Express Tribune "Summit highlights importance of girls’ education" [4] Yes Yes No Routine coverage of the International Women Leaders Summit, where he's mentioned in passing as an attendee ✘ No
The Express Tribune "Corporate Corner" Yes Yes No a photo of six CEOs and CFOs at a conference, with Dawood and the other five mentioned in passing in the caption ✘ No
Financial Post "Pakistan's Engro Looks To Invest In Other Developing Nations" Yes Yes No an article about Engro, with several quotes from an interview with Dawood ✘ No
Pakistan Stock Exchange "Resignation of Director" [5] Yes Yes No Formal letter to the stock exchange announcing Dawood's resignation from Cyan in 2014 ✘ No
Pakistan Stock Exchange "Board Meeting - Election of Chairman and appointment of CEO, CFO and Company Secretary"[6] Yes Yes No Another formal letter to the stock exchange announcing Dawood's election as chairman of Cyan in 2022 ✘ No
Pakistan Stock Exchange "Change of CEO" [7] Yes Yes No Another formal letter to the stock exchange announcing Dawood's appointment as CEO of Dawood Hercules in 2014 ✘ No
Pakistan Stock Exchange "Appointment of CEO" [8] Yes Yes No Another formal letter to the stock exchange announcing Dawood's resignation as CEO of Dawood Hercules in 2016 ✘ No
Business School Lausanne "PEBBLES (PVT) Ltd.: “Building Hopes” " [9] No Yes No Case study by a business school on a subsidiary company of Dawood Hercules, where Samad Dawood is mentioned in three places as the parent company's CEO, e.g. " the organization’s sustainability perspective and the journey it took to transform the dream of Mr. Samad Dawood, the CEO of Dawood Hercules Corporation, into a reality" ✘ No
The Express Tribune "Dutch company acquires Engro Foods for $446.81m"[10] Yes Yes No Article about another company taking over Engro Foods, with a quote from Dawood from the Engro press release. ✘ No
Reuters "Pakistani conglomerate Engro looks to go global, its main investor says" [11] Yes Yes No Interview with Dawood about Engro, primary source ✘ No
Pakistan Today " "Engro's Rs60 billion question" [12] Yes Yes Yes Article about the company, with several quotes from Dawood and some analysis of his role, meets SIGCOV. ✔ Yes
Khaadi "Abdul Samad Dawood"[13] No Yes No A short director profile by his employer, primary source. ✘ No
Pakistan Business Council "About PBC"[14] No Yes No Simply lists him as a board member. ✘ No
Hub Power Company "Annual Report 2016"[15] No Yes No Annual report simply lists him as a board member, with a short bio. ✘ No
Sui Northern Gas Pipelines Limited "Annual Report 2008"[16] No Yes No Annual report simply lists him as director, with a short bio. ✘ No
The News International "In rare visit, top Pakistani business leaders meet US officials"[17] Yes Yes No Routine coverage of a trade delegation to the US, mentions him in passing as one of the eight members. ✘ No
The Nation (Pakistan) "Inaugural meeting of Industrial Advisory Council held"[18] Yes Yes No Routine coverage of a government-backed business conference, mentions him in passing as one of the members attending. ✘ No
Pakistan Today "Govt establishes Industry Advisory Council to develop industrial policy"[19] Yes Yes No More routine coverage of the government-backed business conference above, mentions him in passing as one of the members attending. ✘ No
WWF–Pakistan "Annual report 2012"[20] No Yes No Listed on p. 56 in the list of board members ✘ No
Business Recorder "WWF-P holds awards ceremony"[21] Yes Yes No Routine coverage of awards ceremony, briefly mentions Dawood and another member getting certificates of appreciation ✘ No
ABC News (United States) "Titanic submersible victim’s deaths ‘brought the world together,’ Dawood family member says"[22] Yes Yes No Short interview with Samad Dawood on his grief following his brother's death in an accident, primary source. (Please see article for full URL: source assessment template doesn't work with full YouTube links with separators.) ✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

Wikishovel (talk) 16:14, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: I have just added an additional source from Bloomberg.com, a reputable and independent news outlet, further strengthening the subject’s notability. The table is impressive, though I am unclear why some quotes are not considered significant coverage, as they seem to meet GNG criteria:
- The Reuters article is based on a direct interview with the subject.
- The 2016 Express Tribune article by Salman Siddiqui, from one of Pakistan’s leading English-language newspapers, features prominent quotes from the subject.
- Additionally, a university case study is inherently independent, so I wonder why this is being questioned. Crosji (talk) 11:21, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Not every single businessman from Pakistan becomes notable just for being involve in a business inside Pakistan. BLP lacks significant coverage in reliable sources and by looking at image it seems it is a case of COI. 39.34.141.22 (talk) 09:37, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete per nom. Agree with Wikishovel's table above - I think Profit's article is about Engro so I would not count it as significant coverage about Dawood (I only found a few quotes from him in that article). 202.47.50.250 (talk) 04:28, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment: I am truly impressed by the expertise and subtlety of this contribution. It appears, however, that this necessitates you remaining anonymous and refraining from responding to my comments, which is quite unfortunate. Crosji (talk) 17:28, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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