Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK Railways

When do "Names" sections become excessive?

See British Rail Class 390#Names. I think this is the perfect example of what Wikipedia should not be. It's not a directory, nor a collection of indiscriminate information / trivia. I think this example fails WP:DETAIL. In my opinion we should trim the section right back to just a handful (less than 10) of notable names, i.e. namings that resulted in press coverage rather than just entries in a single (list) reference. 10mmsocket (talk) 21:04, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

I disagree - I think the content has its place when it is sourced. Being selective could be seen as us being subjective. Garuda3 (talk) 21:51, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

In general, I think that section has far too much detail, much of it transient in nature (as shown by the frequency of renamings). My only hesitation is that in this case, it is well sourced / referenced and is (currently) up to date - albeit with a risk of that not being maintained. There is a vast number of railway articles which have excessive detail which is not sourced and is also hopelessly out of date (e.g. see many heritage railway articles). On that basis, I'm very supportive of reducing unnecessary detail, but this article wouldn't be remotely near any list of worst examples. Mwsmith20 (talk) 10:07, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

WP:Other stuff exists and WP:General notability guideline. The real question is whether it is appropriate to use Wikipedia as a repository for this information. See WP:Wikipedia is not. Doubtless there are many other enthusiast sites where such detail is recorded. If enough people really really want Wikipedia to host this material, then it needs to be hived off into a list article, such as a list of British Rail Class 390 names, so at least it doesn't clog the main article with clutter. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 10:49, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

We do this for some steam loco classes, e.g. List of GWR 4900 Class locomotives, but the majority of named steam locos tended to be named when new, or almost-new, and also tended to keep their names until withdrawal. That said, some classes (e.g. LMS Royal Scot Class, nos. 6125-49, and LNER Class A4) did have a disproportionately-high number of renamings.

I have noticed that in modern times (like, from about 1990 on), locomotives and multiple-units were often named with a lot of publicity, particularly in local press, and a few years later the names were quietly dropped, by which time the local interest had also vanished. Names do tend to be a lot more transient than they once were. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:57, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

As long as it is cited, which this appears to be, see no problem. Keeping track of contemporary namings / denamings is easily done with several of the industry magazines having sections in each edition that track. Either include them all or none at all, trying to decide which are notable and which aren't would be impossible. Of more concern are the lists, of which there are many, on railway articles that have existed for years uncited and while perhaps correct at the time of writing, are now horribly out of date. Symondsyat (talk) 22:39, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

RAIL magazine 17 April 2024

Hi,
Does anyone have access to a copy of the 17 April 2024 edition of RAIL magazine please? If so, could you tell me the page number of the article by Philip Haigh on the recent proposals for Kent–Gatwick services? I would like to complete the following reference:

• Haigh, Philip (17 April 2024). "NR explores resurrection of direct Kent–Gatwick trains". RAIL. No. 1007.

Thanks and best wishes, Mertbiol (talk) 19:51, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

Probably. I have a digital subscription but not on this device. Give me 24 hours. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:26, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

Mertbiol: Yes, I have a copy. The page is 52-53. See here to confirm. Rcsprinter123 (palaver) 21:20, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks very much @Rcsprinter123: You are a star!! Mertbiol (talk) 21:56, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

Photos of the Redhill–Tonbridge line

Hi,
I’ve recently been doing some work on the Redhill–Tonbridge line. I have struggled a little to find good photos to illustrate the article and I wondered if anyone had any pictures of the line in their own collections, that they might be willing to upload to Commons? It would be great to have some photos of passenger and goods trains from before 2008 (including steam, diesel and electric locomotives/multiple units). I’d also be very grateful for any pictures of the station buildings and signal boxes at Nutfield, Godstone, Edenbridge and Penshurst.
Thanks and best wishes, Mertbiol (talk) 15:14, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

There's a thread for this at Talk:Redhill–Tonbridge line#Request for photos. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 16:37, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Machynlleth Town railway station

I've proposed renaming Machynlleth Town railway station. Thoughts on the talk page would be welcome. — Voice of Clam (talk) 08:35, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Alconbury Weald station

When would you say would be the best time to create an article on this station? I have information about when Alconbury Weald new development was built and when the station was roughly first proposed, as well as news articles saying consideration may be applied after the new election (obviously since happened, but not sure about the application). The station is to be located between Huntingdon and Peterborough, probably served only by GTR. Difficultly north (talk) Time, department skies 13:33, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

It certainly has widespread coverage from reliable sources, but at the moment I think it only merits mention in some other article, e.g. at List of proposed railway stations in England#List_of_proposed_stations_in_East_of_England and a more expanded mention at Alconbury Weald. I'd say when it gets to the point where concrete plans are submitted for approval it might be worthy of its own article. If plans get approved then it's definitely worthy. As an aside I'm staying 10 miles away from there for the next week or so. 10mmsocket (talk) 14:35, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Maybe it could also be mentioned in the old Abbots Ripton article which isn't far from the probable site. Difficultly north (talk) Time, department skies 14:42, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Notability of UK stations

There is a conversation about the notability of UK stations ongoing at Wikipedia talk:Notability. Garuda3 (talk) 16:50, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

For "conversation", read "full-blown thirty-day formal WP:RFC". With everybody who doesn't give a tinker's cuss for railways, least of all British ones, getting involved. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:40, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

From the discussion at the RFC, the question arises "Would this WP benefit from having a page similar to WP:SHIPS/R?" Mjroots (talk) 18:29, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Re the above, is Wikipedia:WikiProject UK Railways/Sources supposed to be our version of SHIPS/R? Mjroots (talk) 18:32, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Interesting I never saw that before. Would be great to expand it. I'll have a dig for appropriate online sources. 10mmsocket (talk) 18:37, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Mjroots – that was my intention when I started adding to it yesterday with books from my collection. Ideally, if other editors could add their own books/sources, it would become a go-to reference for anybody seeking to expand a station article. Hassocks5489 (Floreat Hova!) 18:41, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

On mobile so can't do much copy/pasting but I have a fair few books that might be helpful, though fewer that are about stations specifically. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:41, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

I've created a shortcut WP:UKT/S. Mjroots (talk) 07:57, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

I've added the UK-related Middleton Press books I own to the page. Please add those you own. If already listed just add your name to the existing entry. Mjroots (talk) 08:27, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Ashley Down station

Ashley Down railway station needs adding to {{Bristol railway map}}. It is between Filton Abbey Wood and Stapleton Road, but there are two closed stations between them, so I am unsure exactly where it fits in. Mjroots (talk) 09:30, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Based on the cooridnates in the articles, Ashley Down is just north of Ashley Hill so should be between there and Horfield on the diagram. I'll leave making the edit to someone who understands the RDT syntax Thryduulf (talk) 11:29, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

@Thryduulf: - Done. Mjroots (talk) 14:08, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

• Isn't Ashley Down station on the same site as Ashley Hill (literally the same old platforms being dug out and refurbished). It's not in the location that recent road-centric Bristolians would generally think of as 'Ashley Down'. Andy Dingley (talk) 20:34, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

  If the coords in our Ashley Hill railway station and Ashley Down railway station articles are correct, the new station is a little (1.62 arcseconds, or about 50 metres) to the north of the old. But it's very close: 50 metres is about two coach lengths, so there is probably an overlap of the respective platform ends, if not the bulk of the platforms. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:14, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

  The page for the new Ashley Down station says that in January 2018, it was revealed that plans had been revived to reopen the station... A reference in the MetroWest article clearly states that it is built on the same site.[1]

  50 metres is shorter than the new platforms. It is also closer than Warren Halt was to its 1912 replacement at Dawlish Warren, and they are both covered by a single article.

  So, all in all, they should be a single icon on the railway map and the two articles should be merged. Geof Sheppard (talk) 16:34, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

Question about categories

I notice that The Little Chinese Engine (talk · contribs) is modifying a number of UK train articles and changing the category "Locomotives introduced in YYYY" to a different date. What is the accepted convention? He/she is using the date that manufacturing started, as opposed to the date the first unit was delivered, or the date the first unit started testing, or the first unit entered service? IMO it should be one of the latter three not the one they're all being changed to. Thoughts? Should the changes be reverted? 10mmsocket (talk) 17:59, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Courtesy ping @The Little Chinese Engine as we're talking about you here. 10mmsocket (talk) 17:59, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

OTTOMH I'd expect "introduced" to be the date the first example entered revenue service. I don't immediately recall any discussions about this though. Thryduulf (talk) 18:09, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

What Thryduulf said. For steam locomotives, most books give only one date, but it is not always easy to obtain a date that is consistent between different railway companies; two different books may give two different kinds of event as the date when the loco was new, and some even give dates without stating exactly what event is being dated. Where the kind of event is stated, I have seen the following:

• Physically completed, except for painting
• Painting completed
• Left the manufacturer's premises
• Arrived on the customer's tracks
• Testing completed
• Entered revenue-earning service (which may be described as "entered traffic")
• Date that payment was completed / date that the loco was added to stock (i.e. added to the asset register)

These events did not necessarily occur in that order: some railways only paid for locomotives once a "trial mileage" had been attained, and this would be accumulated in normal service, not on dedicated test runs. Some split the painting stage - painting with primer coats, then testing out on the line, then painting with finishing coats. Timescales could be quite lengthy, especially with modern trains that are stuffed with electronics. For example, London Underground 1995 Tube Stock began delivery in December 1995, testing began in early 1997 but the first train entered service in June 1998, so this for me would be a 1998 introduction. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:23, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. I agree. To me, introduction means the day it entered revenue service. 10mmsocket (talk) 21:34, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Eryholme–Richmond branch line#Requested move 13 September 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Eryholme–Richmond branch line#Requested move 13 September 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 04:03, 21 September 2024 (UTC)