Talk:Danish phonology

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Diphthongs?

... is something I'm missing here.--79.100.144.23 (talk) 12:56, 8 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Similar to Norwegian and Swedish?

The phonology of Danish is similar to that of the other closely related Scandinavian languages, Swedish and Norwegian, but it also has distinct features setting it apart.

How is Danish phonology similar to those of the other two languages? In a meaningful way, of course … yeah, all three of them have consonants and vowels and lexical stress, but, you know … 2A02:3030:808:A8D1:5E4:87DB:152B:494B (talk) 11:41, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that there should be sources comparing those languages more explicitly which could be worked into the article. However, it's an unfortunate first sentence for other reasons, as that's not where comparison is most relevant. Replayful (talk) 11:49, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Capital letters?

In the “Vowel” section, under the “Morphophoneme–phoneme–phone correspondence” chart, there are the following: |ɛ| after |r| and before |∅, D| means /ɛ/ or /ɑ/ – phonetically [æ⁓ɑ], which are reälised [a⁓ɑ̈]. eg: “r**æ**kke”. ⸨[ɑ] (⟦ɑ̈⟧) are in innovative variëties⸩ … and … |a| after ≠ |r| and before |A| means /a/ – phonetically [æ], which is reälised [æ]. eg: “m**a**lle”

Under typical (archi)phonemic or natural class capital letter usage (as wildcards) (see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet#Capital_letters), ⫽D⫽ means {alveölar consonant} and ⫽A⫽ means {open vowel}; however, the examples given do not concur with the listed tautosyllabic environment

So what do |D| and |A| mean in this article? Anterrobang (talk) 17:39, 14 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"D" is for dorsal (palatal, velar or uvular), "A" for alveolar. On a device with a mouse pointer, the {{abbr}}-template creates a tootip, but it is not visible on mobile devices. @Nardog: We might have an accessibility problem here. –Austronesier (talk) 19:21, 14 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Why there are two different phonetic symbols pointing to the same IPA symbol?

I made a change which got reverted: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Danish_phonology&oldid=1138081032

To my knowledge, Danish distinguishes these two sounds (ɔ and ɒ). Why are they pointing to the same IPA symbol article then? Radrow (talk) 09:40, 8 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

We don't have articles about IPA symbols, only ones about sounds. Symbols representing phonemes often don't match their values on the IPA chart because the IPA has only so many letters and because languages change. /ɔ/ is described to be [ɒ̽] so Open back rounded vowel is about the closest article to point to. Nardog (talk) 21:10, 8 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

/ɒ/ is a marginal phoneme that occurs in about 5 words, if I remember correctly. If you ignore those words, /ɔ/ is the only short (phonetic) open back vowel in Danish, which is also true from the historical viewpoint (both /ɒ/ and /ɒː/ ultimately come from /ɔ(ː)r/). Sol505000 (talk) 07:48, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The phoneme table is full of WP:easter eggs, since we link to the (default) phonetic value of these phonemes. While technically correct (I mean, we could even link Mark Hale's infamous Marshallese wingdings to their associated unmarked phones), is this actually a good idea? I'd suggest to remove the links in the phoneme table, and add them in the narrow IPA column of the following table. –Austronesier (talk) 21:37, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Danish soft d is clearly a mandibular (not alveolar) consonant!

I watched several Youtube videos from native Danish speakers, each of whom pointed out and showed where the "soft d" is being produced in their mouth. Clearly this is a mandibular (lower teeth) consonant. Not alveolar!

Specifically, the tongue blade is pressed flat into the lower teeth, to make a "voiced linguo-mandibular approximant."

We all agree it's not a sibilant, but whether it's a flat/laminal or lateral is debatable, since the tongue tip is so shmooshed flat into the lower teeth. However, it appears to me that it's more lateral than laminal, since so much of the tongue is pressed hard into the lower teeth, leaving only the sides to resonate. So I'd say it's more lateral than laminal. In fact, multiple Danish Youtubes went out of their way to contrast /l/ and "soft d", pointing to the upper teeth-alveolar ridge for /l/ and the lower teeth for "soft d". But commenting on their very similar sounds, otherwise.

There's also a velar coloring, approximately [ɤ]. (The alveolar /l/ phoneme is likewise velarized.)

So: "voiced lateral linguo-mandibular approximant with [ɤ]-coloring".

It's pretty annoying that the professional linguists sourced in the article (including native Danish linguists!) seem to all mis-characterize it as alveolar! What madness is this?

I don't know of any official IPA diacritic for mandibular articulations. But if no such diacritic exists, I'd suggest a double stacked dental sign beneath the [l]. Like this: [l◌̪◌̪ ɤ] (incorrectly rendered) or [ɫ◌̪◌̪ ], but with both dental diacritics stacked directly below, and superscript [ɤ]. Traversetravis (talk) 04:13, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You should read more about passive and active articulators. The passive articulator is the alveolar ridge, not the lower teeth. I think only interdental and labiodental consonants (so [f, v] in Danish) involve the lower teeth at all. The active articulator is the tongue blade, not the tip (therefore, the sound is much different from the English [ɹ], which is apical postalveolar, or a velar bunched approximant which is different still). The easiest way to transcribe the Danish soft D is [ɹ̻ˠ] - a velarized laminal alveolar approximant. It is not dental, the teeth play no role in articulating the sound. The reason they can feel the tip of the tongue pressing against the lower teeth is because it has to go somewhere - it just rests there. If you ask a Polish person how to produce Polish /s, z/, they will also tell you to "press the tip of the tongue against your lower teeth". It's a sound non-expert advice on how to produce the sound, nothing more.

/l/ is not velarized in Danish, I don't know where you got that from. Sol505000 (talk) 10:20, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]