Jump to content

Talk:Hearts

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Greetings. I am fixing to merge this whole thing into heart (disambiguation)--let me know if you don't like that. Red Slash 20:26, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 16 March 2019

[edit]
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved HeartsHearts (card game) by consensus. There was no clear consensus whether to move the hearts disambiguation page to the base name or to redirect hearts to heart, nor whether to keep the hearts disambiguation page separate from the heart disambiguation page. Hearts had to go somewhere, though. I've moved Hearts (disambiguation)Hearts in order to finish the first move and will reopen it as a "partial relisting" in the absence of any smarter idea from me. -- JHunterJ (talk) 13:28, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]


– DAB from Heart and the other various articles at the DAB page, while per WP:PLURALPT "Because readers and editors are used to seeing titles at the singular form, and can be expected to search for them/link to them in the singular form" in this case there are a number of other articles at the plural form and the singular does get over 8.5x the views and Heart of Midlothian F.C. comes up first in a Google search (though I don't think that's a major contender here, its existence does help to push over into the situation where disambiguation is probably best). Note that Cars (film) gets a comparable number of views compared to Car but the vehicle is still primary for "Cars" and although the card came isn't a recent topic and Hears aren't pluralized as much as cars it does seem that there is no clear primary topic for the plural. Crouch, Swale (talk) 21:16, 16 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That was what I was stuck on. Probably no primary, or Hearts (suit); I had never encountered Hearts (card game) before this RM. In ictu oculi (talk) 20:38, 17 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Hearts (disambiguation)Hearts per Netoholic and In ictu oculi and support HeartsHearts (card game) per Netoholic. The Heart (disambiguation) page is arranged by section headers "Music" (with sub-section headers), "Film", "Publishing", "Sport", etc. Upon being merged into Heart (disambiguation), all the entries listed at the Hearts (disambiguation) page would be easily located under those headers. —Roman Spinner (talkcontribs) 08:14, 17 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment As far as I can see the 1st !vote is clear that they favour keeping the trick primary, the 2nd and 4th are opposing on the grounds that not only is the trick not primary but that the organ actually is. While the 3rd is saying that the suit is actually primary. What I have noticed is that Hearts (suit) is also a card game topic so the proposed disambiguation is insufficient, how about Hearts (trick)? Also I don't think that the suggested primary topic swaps are a good idea, while I do think that both the organ and suit are more common, per User:Andrewa/Incoming links if we swap PTs then many readers coming from external sites may end up on the wrong title, the fact that we seem to be debating which topic out of 3 is primary is good evidence that none is primary. As far as merging Heart (disambiguation) and Hearts (disambiguation) I would weak oppose that due to the fact that some of the uses (such as the album and film) aren't interchangeably with the single/plural, however only weak oppose since there aren't many uses of the plural. Crouch, Swale (talk) 20:57, 17 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose redirecting Hearts to heart per WP:NOTDICT. If someone bothers to type "hearts" with an s, s/he is unlikely to be looking for the organ, which is rarely referred to in the plural. I'm agnostic on the original proposal and on merging the DAB pages. —  AjaxSmack  00:24, 18 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    @AjaxSmack: - I'm going to have to ask you for some evidence for "unlikely to be looking for the organ, which is rarely referred to in the plural" because that does not seem to be correct. There are 7 uses of "playing Hearts" and at most 17 uses of "play Hearts", but these are dwarfed by uses of "their hearts" which returns over 2,000, for example. While we can nitpick some of these returns, its pretty overwhelming proof that people do indeed use the plural of hearts more than the name of the card game. Also, this has nothing at all to do with WP:NOTDICT, you're just blatantly misusing that guideline. --Netoholic @ 01:38, 18 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I didn't say hearts is never used in the plural in running text, but Wikipedia is a word frequency list. I merely noted that the encyclopedic concept is typically not referred to in the plural (cf. "the human heart" and "human hearts") and is therefore unlikely to be a search term. On the other hand, the card game search term is almost certainly to be the plural. While the card game might not be primary for the plural form, there is no evidence that heart is either, hence my opposition only to the redirect. —  AjaxSmack  02:02, 18 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose first, support second, redirect Hearts to Heart. Clear primary redirect. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:27, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support the original proposal, oppose redirecting Hearts to Heart. Per AjaxSmack, Heart is not the primary topic for "Hearts" because of how rarely the organ is referred to in the plural in encyclopedic prose (and as a search term, the balance is even more strongly tilted against the organ). Regarding the 2,000 instances of "their hearts," I note that a majority seem to be using "hearts" in the metaphorical sense, one which doesn't even have a Wikipedia article. Also your methodology is flawed because "their" is a much more common word than "play"; even if you achieved a perfectly fair comparison, it still doesn't establish the organ as the primary topic, as you've merely shown it to be more popular than the card game, not all other uses. A search for "hearts" alone seems to suggest no primary topic. -- King of 09:46, 24 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • @King of Hearts: - The metaphorical "heart" is covered in the main article for the organ under Heart#Symbolism, so even if you think most of plurals refer to the metaphorical sense, its still appropriate to redirect Hearts to the Heart article. -- Netoholic @ 20:18, 24 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • Fair. But the rest of my point stands, about the flawed methodology. Personally, I think many people would be WP:ASTONISHed if they typed in "Hearts" and got an article on the organ; it's reasonable for people to say "I want to read about cats" and mean the animal, not the musical, but almost everyone would say "I want to read about the heart" for the organ. But we don't have to go with speculation and opinion. One way to solve this is to make Hearts a disambiguation page for a provisional period and link to special-purpose redirects for the main topics. After measuring pageviews, we would know if people really are looking mostly for the organ. -- King of 23:56, 24 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support the first, oppose redirecting hearts to heart. Given the multiplicity of things known by the plural only (some of which are common), and the relative likelihood of referring to the organ primarily in the singular, I think a dab page has the most utility. olderwiser 02:14, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 25 March 2019

[edit]
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Not moved. See general agreement below that outcome #1 is the optimum solution. Kudos to editors for your input, and Happy Publishing! (nac by page mover) Paine Ellsworth, ed.  put'r there  15:01, 8 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]


HeartsHearts (disambiguation) – no consensus emerged in the above RM as to what to do with "Hearts" once the card game was moved from the primary topic. Possible outcomes here:

  1. Place the disambiguation page for "hearts" at the base name (the stopgap solution from the last RM)
  2. Move the disambiguation page back to Hearts (disambiguation) and redirect HeartsHeart as {{R from plural}}
  3. Merge the disambiguation page into Heart (disambiguation) and redirect HeartsHeart as {{R from plural}}

-- JHunterJ (talk) 13:34, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.